Six days before Passover

Six days before Passover

Joe Viel answered 7

By Gerhard Ebersöhn

Joe Viel proposes:

Another Dating Clue from Events in Crucifixion Week

Did Palm Sunday happen on a Sunday, Saturday , or some other time? If it happened on a Sunday, as tradition holds, it would have been the 10th of Aviv, making Wednesday Night/Thursday Day the 14th. Why is it believed this happened on a Sunday?

· John 11:54 puts him in Ephraim shortly before Passover.

· Then, Yochanan / John 12:1 tells us, "6 days before Passover, Y'shua arrived at Bethany."

· Verse 2 tells us "Here a dinner was given in Y'shua's honor."

· Yochanan / John 12:12 tells He rode into Jerusalem on "the next day".

Now determining when John 12:1 happened is not as easy as it might look at first. It says "6 days before Passover" but is Passover reckoned from when the sacrifice was slaughtered on the 14th or when the meal was eaten on the 15th? Is it counting including the day of Passover or excluding the day of Passover? Also, if he was travelling that day, is it possible he got there just before the day expired and if so, does the "6 days" include or exclude that travel day?

With all these ambiguous questions, we see His trip to Bethany could have been anytime as late as the 10th of Aviv or anytime as early as the 7th of Aviv. Of course, the best clue is found in John 11:55-57. Traditionally, Jews would arrive in Jerusalem at least one week prior to Passover so that if they became unclean during their journey by encountering a dead animal or something, they would have 7 full days to fullfill requirements to be made clean. The point John is probably trying to make here is that Y'shua arrived with less than 7 days to be cleansed from any uncleanness that people normally allow for during this period. So he could have been travelling as early as the 8th of Aviv, during the day.

Now was the dinner on the same day he travelled or later that evening? That is, the 8th would have become the 9th at sundown. "Dinner" is something eaten at 5-7pm for most Americans, but 7-9pm for many Europeans. So when did first century Israelites eat dinner? Well, Passover was rather late at night, and they may have used the more European timing, which was based on using as much daylight to accomplish work as you could before you ate at night. So was the "next day" the day after He travelled or the day after the dinner? My guess is that He travelled on Friday the 8th, and they held a Sabbath day dinner for Him that night. The "next day" is the next day after the dinner. Other verses help put these clues together, with the book of Mark giving us the most clues on dating of these events. Let's take a look at two possibilities...

· Possibility #1: "6 Days Before Passover" refers to 6 days before the 14th of Aviv and is counting EXCLUSIVELY. This would put the trip to Bethany on the 8th of Aviv.

o Aviv 8 - Y'shua arrives at Bethany and annointed for the first time by Mary (who wiped His feet) (John 12)

o Aviv 9 (Evening) - Dinner for Y'shua.

o Aviv 10 - Triumphal Entry on Sunday the 10th (Mark 11:1-11)

o Aviv 11 - Y'shua clears the temple on "the next day" (Mark 11:12) after His triumphal entry. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.

o Aviv 12 - They notice the withered Fig Tree "in the morning" (Mark 11:20) the day after He cleared the temple. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.

§ Topics discussed that day were...

§ Authority of Y'shua questioned (Mark 11:27-33)

§ Parable on the Tenants (Mark 12:1-12)

§ Paying Taxes to Caesar (Mark 12:13-17)

§ Marriage at the Resurrection (Mark 12:18-27, Matthew 22:23 plainly tells us this was the same day as his teaching on paying taxes to Caesar.)

§ Being David's son (Mark 12:35-40)

§ The Second Coming (Mark 13:1-37)

o Aviv 13 - Y'shua annointed at Bethany (the second time) "two days before" Passover. (Mark 14:1-11) This annointing was different than the earlier one John records in John 12. Here, an unnamed woman annoints Him with perfume on His head, while the earlier discussed His feet.

o Aviv 14 (evening) - Begins as we reach Mark 14:12 which says..."in the first day of unleaveness, when they killed the passover, his disciples say to him, `Where wilt thou, [that,] having gone, we may prepare, that thou mayest eat the passover?" Now there's two timing clues on the date here...

§ "the first day of unleaveness". This could be talking about Aviv 14 or 15. Aviv 15 was the first LEGAL day of Unleavened Bread, but Jews would get their house ready by the 14th in order to be ready for the start of it on the 15th. So the 14th was the first day on a de facto basis.

§ "when they killed the passover". There's no ambiguity to this one. The lamb was killed on the 14th "between the mixings". So the timing for this day was the 14th of Aviv. It would have been the evening of the 14th, since Y'shua was killed on the afternoon of the 14th. History tells us that the Essenes and Samaritans, and probably the Galileans, ate the paschal meal on the eve of the 14th, while the Pharisees and Saduccess ate it on the eve of the 15th. The Law does not prescribe when the lamb must be eaten, only when it must be killed.

o Aviv 14 (Daytime) - Begins with the arrest of Y'shua and His trial. Yochanan / John 19:14 tells us it was not yet Passover, as it was celebrated by greater Judea.

· Possibility #2: "6 Days Before Passover" refers to the 15th of Aviv and is counting INCLUSIVELY. This would put the trip to Bethany on the 10th of Aviv, making the 10th the 1st day, the 11th the 2nd day, the 12th the 3rd day, and the 15th the 6th day.

· Aviv 10- Y'shua arrives at Bethany and annointed for the first time by Mary (who wiped His feet) (John 12)

· Aviv 11 - Triumphal Entry on Sunday the 10th (Mark 11:1-11)

· Aviv 12 - Y'shua clears the temple on "the next day" (Mark 11:12) after His triumphal entry. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.

· Aviv 13 - They notice the withered Fig Tree "in the morning" (Mark 11:20) the day after He cleared the temple. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.

o Topics discussed that day were...

§ Authority of Y'shua questioned (Mark 11:27-33)

§ Parable on the Tenants (Mark 12:1-12)

§ Paying Taxes to Caesar (Mark 12:13-17)

§ Marriage at the Resurrection (Mark 12:18-27, Matthew 22:23 plainly tells us this was the same day as his teaching on paying taxes to Caesar.)

§ Being David's son (Mark 12:35-40)

§ The Second Coming (Mark 13:1-37)

· Aviv 13 - Y'shua annointed at Bethany (the second time) "two days before" Passover. (Mark 14:1-11) This annointing was different than the earlier one John records in John 12 and the differences were discussed in detail in the previous chronology.

· Aviv 14 (evening) - Begins as we reach Mark 14:12 which says..."in the first day of unleaveness, when they killed the passover, his disciples say to him, `Where wilt thou, [that,] having gone, we may prepare, that thou mayest eat the passover?" This is similar to the chain of events as listed in the previous chronology.

Now there's not much room to make the sequence of event shorter than what I have here. Mark puts enough "the next day" markers in here to tell us we can't put the temple clearing and the teachings on Taxes, etc., on the same day.

Could Mark failed to have noted a day? Well, that's entirely possible. Nearly all of the 4 gospels list events that the other 3 don't. But if you try to add more time, you run into a problem where you have Y'shua travelling between Bethany and Jerusalem on a Sabbath day. We can rule out Mark 11:12 occuring on Sabbath because Y'shua travelled between two cities on that day. He stayed in Bethany the entire week leading up to His crucifixion. The only place where there is a "break" in the accounts is that there is a Dinner listed after His travel day and the day before He rode into Jerusalem. So if we assume that the night of His "dinner in His honor" in Bethany was an Erev Shabbat, all the timing of the events fit together neatly and lead up to a Thursday crucifixion. Else, we put His arrival more than 6 days beforehand. Or you push His crucifixion beyond the 6 days John 12 talks about.

By the first possibility of chronology, indeed, Palm Sunday was a Sunday, the 10th of Aviv, which began on Saturday evening and ended Sunday evening. Making Monday during the day the 11th, Tuesday the 12th, Wednesday the 13th, and Wednesday Night thru Thursday sundown the 14th and day of His crucifixion. By the second, His entry into Jerusalem would have been on Monday the 11th.

Many have suggested that His entry into Jerusalem fullfilled the Torah type of Exodus/Shemot 12:3-6 that required a lamb to be selected on the 10th of Aviv and taken care of until the 14th. But His entry into Bethany should be considered a candidate for fullfilling this type as well. Just because we've heard the donkey ride mentioned more frequently as the fullfillment of this type doesn't mean it's correct. In fact, a close comparison suggests maybe His trip to Bethany better fullfills the type.

Exodus/Shemot 12:6 required Israel to "take care of" the lamb selected. Simon "took care of" Y'shua. Jerusalem, as a city, did nothing to "take care of" Y'shua, as the requirements of Exodus 12 state. So if He arrived at Bethany on Sunday the 10th, 6 days later (counting the 10th as day "1"), would be the 15th when they would eat of the Passover. So the next "day" could be Monday the 11th, leading us up to Thursday the 14th when He was crucified. Also, nothing about his status changed after his entry into Jerusalem. He still stayed at Simon's home in Bethany all week long. If the entry in Jerusalem was it, then why didn't He stay in Jerusalem the rest of the week? He was annointed TWICE in Bethany that week - the first time when He arrived and the second time 2 days before the feast. Again, part of the "care" they gave Him there.

Six days before Passover

Joe Viel answered

By Gerhard Ebersöhn

Part Seven

Gerhard Ebersöhn answers Joe Viel:

To facilitate our analysis of this section of Joe Viel’s thesis, it may be of help that I first present a short summary of my own view on the subject of “The Last Week”. Then we afterwards may readily make comparisons to reach conclusion as to which would be the more likely correct interpretation.

PALM SUNDAY TO PASSOVER

NISAN 8	TEXT *	DAY BEFORE PASSOVER	PLACE	EVENT
9	Jn.12:1	SIXTH = Saturday	Bethany ‘where Lazarus stayed’	Meal Mary anoints Jesus’ feet
10	Lk.19:29-44 Mk.11:1 Jn.12:12 Mk.11:11	FIFTH = Palm Sunday ‘the next morning’ ‘late hour’	Village Into Jerusalem, in temple To Bethany	Colt, palm branches ‘looked around’
11	Mt.21:18 Mk.11:12 Mk.11:15 Lk.19:45-48 Mk.11:19	FOURTH = Monday ‘early’ ‘next morning’ ‘when it got late’	From Bethany ‘came to Jerusalem’ ‘out of city’	Fig tree cursed Cast out money changers
12	Mk.11:20 21,27 Mt.22:23 Lk.20:1-8 Mk.13:1, 3 Mt.26:2	THIRD = Tuesday ‘early’ ‘on the same day’ after two days crucified	‘returning’ (from Bethany) ‘to Jerusalem again’ ‘out of temple’ Mount of Olives Lk.21:37	Fig tree withered Temple building Jesus preaches Kingdom of heaven
13	Lk.21:38 Mt.26:3 Mk.14:1-3	SECOND = Wednesday ‘After two days Passover/Feast’	‘being in Bethany’ ‘Simon’s house’	CONSPIRACY Meal Woman anoints Jesus’ head
14	Jn.13:1,29 Mk.14:17 Mt.26:21	FIRST = THURSDAY ‘BEFORE the FEAST’ / ‘TOWARD the FEAST’ “When the even was come”
	Mk.14:2 Mt.26:5 Mt.26:17 Mk.14:12	‘NOT on the Feast Day’ ‘on the first day of de-leaven ‘on the first day of de-leaven	when they always sacrificed the Passover’
	Lk.22:7	‘came the day of de-leaven whereon passover must be	SLAUGHTERED’
	Lk.22:14	‘when the hour was come’	LAST SUPPER
	Jn.13:30	‘It was night’
	Mk.15:1	‘early morning’ .
	Lk.22:66	‘Came their day’	TRIBUNAL
	Jn.19:14	‘Preparation of Passover’ ‘THE SIXTH HOUR’(6AM.)	DELIVERED
	Mk.15:25	‘THE THIRD HOUR’	CRUCIFIED
	Mt.27:45	‘the sixth hour’	darkness
	46, 50	‘the ninth hour’ EARTHQUAKE RETURNED BREAST BEATING	DIED

Mk.15:42 Mt.27:57

‘IT WAS EVENING’

Jn.18:28

Jn.19:31 Mk.15:42

FEAST

‘might eat the Passover'

‘Because it was preparation

‘being the Fore-Sabbath’

the Jews asked Pilate

After these things

Joseph asked Pilate

Mk.15:45

Lk.23:53

Jn.19:38c

Jn.19:40a

Pilate “granted” Joseph Jesus’ body

‘He took the body down’

‘He therefore took the body of Jesus away’

‘Then they prepared the body of Jesus’

‘There laid they Jesus’

* 8th Nisan: “The people were come in great crowds to the Feast of Unleavened Bread on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus” (or Nisan / Abib), Josephus, Wars vi, 5:3. Also Megallit Ta’anit (Die Festenrolle – Eine Untersuchung Zur Judisch-Hellenistischen Geschichte, H. Lichtenstein, HUCA 8-9, 1931-32.

All right then; let’s hear how Joe Viel sees things.

Joe Viel:

“Another Dating Clue from Events in Crucifixion Week

· John 11:54 puts him in Ephraim shortly before Passover.

· Then, Yochanan / John 12:1 tells us, "6 days before Passover, Y'shua arrived at Bethany."

· Verse 2 tells us "Here a dinner was given in Y'shua's honor."

· Yochanan / John 12:12 tells He rode into Jerusalem on "the next day".

GE:

Re: “It says "6 days before Passover" but is Passover reckoned from when the sacrifice was slaughtered on the 14th or when the meal was eaten on the 15th? Is it counting including the day of Passover or excluding the day of Passover?”

“Is it counting including the day of Passover or excluding the day of Passover?” Joe Viel deservedly calls his own questions, “ambiguous”. But he himself creates the ambiguity with his questions. “It says "6 days before Passover" but is Passover reckoned from when the sacrifice was slaughtered on the 14th or when the meal was eaten on the 15th? Is it counting including the day of Passover or excluding the day of Passover?”

“It says 6 days before Passover” (‘pro tou pascha’); that is, “exclusive”, of the “Feast”— Abib 15 when they always ATE the passover; and “inclusive” of “the first day when they had to kill the Passover”, Abib 14, Ex12:15, Mk14:12 et al.

But both Abib 14, “when the sacrifice was slaughtered” and Abib 15, “when the meal was eaten”, ‘are counting’ as, and are ‘included’ under, ‘passover’, and were, ‘days of passover’. And so they are described and named, in both the Old and New Testaments! “The first day when .... they always killed / had to kill the passover”— obviously, Abib 14; “two days before the Feast of passover”— obviously two days before Abib 15 when “thou shalt eat the passover”; “that they might eat the passover”, Jn18:28. Therefore, ‘passover’ ‘included’ “the 14th” and “the 15th”, no question about it. It would have been much easier for Joe Viel to have understood as well as for us, stopped he after having asked, “.... is Passover reckoned from when the sacrifice was slaughtered on the 14th or when the meal was eaten on the 15th?”, because ‘passover’ meant “counting” and “including the day of Passover when the sacrifice was slaughtered on the 14th”, and, “counting” and “including the day of Passover when the meal was eaten on the 15th”.

But in Jn12:1 the full meaning clearly is both exclusive of the Feast of Abib 15 and inclusive of the day of Abib 14 when the passover was killed. See scheme again.

Joe Viel:

“Also, if he was travelling that day, is it possible he got there just before the day expired and if so, does the "6 days" include or exclude that travel day?”

GE:

The difficulty or ambiguity arises from not having taken into account the actual locality where Jesus “came”. It does not state Jesus ‘arrived’ in Bethany on the sixth day before the passover; it says Jesus “came where Lazarus lived in Bethany, six days before the passover” (Abib 14 included). Otherwise one has to conclude that Jesus covered a journey of at least two days from Jericho to Bethany on the one day that was the sixth day before the passover, which besides, was the Sabbath Day. But Jesus did no travelling on that Sabbath the sixth day before the passover. John 12:1 implies at least Abib 8 and 9 for the journey from Jericho to Bethany. See scheme above.

Joe Viel:

“.... we see His trip to Bethany could have been anytime as late as the 10th of Aviv or anytime as early as the 7th of Aviv.”

GE:

Joe Viel would have been right, had he only said, “.... we see His trip to Bethany could have been .... anytime as early as the 7th of Aviv”. Joe Viel would have been right, had he not said, “.... we see His trip to Bethany could have been anytime as late as the 10th of Aviv”. No, it cannot mean that Jesus’ “trip to Bethany could have been anytime as late as the 10th”, because that would have meant John counted completely wrong that Jesus “six days BEFORE passover came where Lazarus stayed in Bethany”.

Joe Viel:

“Of course, the best clue is found in John 11:55-57. Traditionally, Jews would arrive in Jerusalem at least one week prior to Passover so that if they became unclean during their journey by encountering a dead animal or something, they would have 7 full days to fullfill requirements to be made clean. The point John is probably trying to make here is that Y'shua arrived with less than 7 days to be cleansed from any uncleanness that people normally allow for during this period. So he could have been travelling as early as the 8th of Aviv, during the day.”

GE:

Beautifully explained! Something I have never noticed! Thanks!

Joe Viel:

“Now was the dinner on the same day he travelled or later that evening? That is, the 8th would have become the 9th at sundown. "Dinner" is something eaten at 5-7pm for most Americans, but 7-9pm for many Europeans. So when did first century Israelites eat dinner? Well, Passover was rather late at night, and they may have used the more European timing, which was based on using as much daylight to accomplish work as you could before you ate at night.”

GE:

It is another unnecessary ‘ambiguity’ created by Joe Viel; quite a common one, I must say. Nevertheless, whenever during the day of its eating, the meal was after the day or after the last day of Jesus’ travelling. The meal in Lazarus’ house, was on the first day after Jesus’ arrival in Bethany and on the sixth day “before the passover” of Abib 15 excluded— “Day-of-the-Passover”— “passover” in the sense of “The Feast Day of Passover”— head-day or “great-day-sabbath” of passover Abib 15, in Jn19:31.

Abib 15 excluded, first of all because the day of Jesus’ crucifixion Abib 14 in Jn19:14, is called “The-Preparation-Day-of-the-Passover” which chronologically MUST be the first day before the “The Feast Day of Passover”— head-day or “great-day-sabbath” of passover Abib 15 in Jn19:31.

The meal at Lazarus’ was on the Sabbath, Abib 9, before “the next day” of Jn12:12, Abib 10 which was ‘Palm Sunday’, agreed.

Joe Viel:

“So was the "next day" the day after He travelled or the day after the dinner? My guess is that He travelled on Friday the 8th, and they held a Sabbath day dinner for Him that night. The "next day" is the next day after the dinner.”

GE:

And I fully agree. Only I dare say I don’t guess; the Scriptures are clear no guessing is needed.

Then too, because the meal was on the Sabbath that fell on Abib 9, it could have been ‘dinner’ at the beginning of the Sabbath day; but I should say it rather was ‘lunch’ of the Sabbath Day itself. Jesus seems to have stayed over with Lazarus after his journey of the day before. So he ‘arrived’ or ‘went in where Lazarus stayed’ as soon as He arrived the evening of the Sabbath Day, rested the Sabbath’s night, and next day was served dinner— or ‘lunch’, in stricter terms.

We now have found two days of the “six days before passover”, the first two Saturday and Sunday, sixth and fifth days “before the (passover) days (of unleavened bread)”, Abib 15, passover Feast.

Joe Viel:

“Other verses help put these clues together, with the book of Mark giving us the most clues on dating of these events. Let's take a look at two possibilities...

· Possibility #1: "6 Days Before Passover" refers to 6 days before the 14th of Aviv and is counting EXCLUSIVELY. This would put the trip to Bethany on the 8th of Aviv.

o Aviv 8 - Y'shua arrives at Bethany and annointed for the first time by Mary (who wiped His feet) (John 12)

o Aviv 9 (Evening) - Dinner for Y'shua.

o Aviv 10 - Triumphal Entry on Sunday the 10th (Mark 11:1-11) .....................”

GE:

That would be impossible if “the 14th of Aviv .... counting EXCLUSIVELY”. Abib 14 must be counted in, in order to get to a ‘Saturday’ “Dinner for Y'shua” on “Aviv 9 (Evening)” and the “Triumphal Entry on Sunday the 10th”. Look at the scheme above.

Joe Viel:

“Possibility #2: "6 Days Before Passover" refers to the 15th of Aviv and is counting INCLUSIVELY. This would put the trip to Bethany on the 10th of Aviv, making the 10th the 1st day, the 11th the 2nd day, the 12th the 3rd day, and the 15th the 6th day.

· Aviv 10- Y'shua arrives at Bethany and annointed for the first time by Mary (who wiped His feet) (John 12)....”

GE:

“15th of Aviv” cannot be ‘counted’ “inclusively” because if counted, Jn12:1 should have said, ‘seven days before passover’.

“15th of Aviv” cannot be ‘counted’ “inclusively” if Abib 14 was a Thursday – which Joe Viel himself believes was the case.

Therefore, the only possibility is, “"6 Days Before Passover" refers to the 15th of Aviv and is counting” EXCLUSIVELY. This would mean:

On the 8th of Abib .... trip to Bethany; implied: Jesus arrives at / in Bethany;

Abib 9 - Jesus “came where Lazarus stayed in Bethany” – Lunch (or dinner); is anointed.

There was only one way to getting to the result, “Aviv 10 - Triumphal Entry on Sunday the 10th (Mark 11:1-11)”—

Jn.12:1

SIXTH = Saturday

Bethany

‘where Lazarus stayed’

Meal

Mary anoints Jesus’ feet

Lk.19:29-44 Mk.11:1 Jn.12:12 Mk.11:11

FIFTH = Palm Sunday

‘the next morning’ ‘late hour’

Village Into Jerusalem,

in temple To Bethany

Colt, palm branches

‘looked around’

Joe Viel:

“Aviv 11 - Y'shua clears the temple on "the next day" (Mark 11:12) [Monday] after His triumphal entry. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.”

GE:

Mt.21:18 Mk.11:12 Mk.11:15 Lk.19:45-48 Mk.11:19

FOURTH = Monday ‘early’

‘next morning’

‘when it got late’

From Bethany

‘came to Jerusalem’

‘out of city’

Fig tree cursed

Cast out money changers

Abib 11 (Monday) ended here: Verse 19, “When late it became (‘hotan opse egeneto’) they went forth out of the city.”

Up to here .....

(Friday Abib 8, seventh day before passover Abib 15),

Saturday Abib 9, “sixth day before passover” Abib 15,

Sunday Abib 10, fifth day before passover Abib 15,

Monday Abib 11, fourth day before passover Abib 15

..... it seems it’s more or less agreed.

Joe Viel:

“Possibility 1: Aviv 12 - They notice the withered Fig Tree "in the morning" (Mark 11:20) the [Tues-] day after He cleared the temple [on Monday] . Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day. [Tuesday]

Topics discussed that day were...

Authority of Y'shua questioned (Mark 11:27-33)

Parable on the Tenants (Mark 12:1-12)

Paying Taxes to Caesar (Mark 12:13-17)

Marriage at the Resurrection (Mark 12:18-27, Matthew 22:23 plainly tells us this was the same day as his teaching on paying taxes to Caesar.)

Being David's son (Mark 12:35-40)

The Second Coming (Mark 13:1-37)”

GE:

Mk.11:20 21,27 Mt.22:23 Lk.20:1-8 Mk.13:1, 3

Mt.26:2

THIRD = Tuesday ‘early’

‘on the same day’

after two days crucified

‘returning’ (from Bethany)

‘to Jerusalem again’

‘out of temple’

Mount of Olives

Lk.21:37

Fig tree withered

Temple building

Jesus preaches Kingdom of heaven

Up to here .....

Tuesday Abib 12, “after two days Passover” Abib 14 Matthew

..... the difference is obvious.

Joe Viel:

“Possibility 2: Aviv 12 – Y'shua clears the temple on "the next day" [Tuesday] (Mark 11:12) after His triumphal entry. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.”

GE:

Out of the question; there is only one possibility. Everything is working out nicely; why create discrepancies?

Joe Viel:

“Possibility 1: Aviv 13 [Wednesday] - Y'shua annointed at Bethany (the second time) "two days before" Passover. (Mark 14:1-11) This annointing was different than the earlier one John records in John 12. Here, an unnamed woman annoints Him with perfume on His head, while the earlier discussed His feet.

GE:

Lk.21:38

Mt.26:3

Mk.14:1-3

SECOND = Wednesday

‘After two days Passover/Feast’

‘being in Bethany’

‘Simon’s house’

CONSPIRACY Meal

Woman anoints Jesus’ head

Joe Viel:

“Possibility 2: Aviv 13 - They notice the withered Fig Tree "in the morning" (Mark 11:20) the day after He cleared the temple. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.”

GE:

Lost case; there is only one possibility.

Up to here therefore .....

(Friday Abib 8, seventh day before passover Abib 15),

Saturday Abib 9, “sixth day before passover” Abib 15,

Sunday Abib 10, fifth day before passover Abib 15,

Monday Abib 11, fourth day before passover Abib 15

..... it seems it’s more or less agreed.

Up to here .....

Tuesday Abib 12, third day before passover Abib 15 and

“after two days : Passover” ‘killed’— Abib 14, Matthew,

Wednesday Abib 13, second day before passover Abib 15 and

“after two days : Feast of Unleavened Bread”— Abib 15, Mark,

..... the difference is obvious: I differentiate between the first two head-days of the Passover, the day of the Crucifixion, and the day of the first eating of unleavened bread. Joe Viel – it seems – does not regard Abib 14 for real ‘passover’. That’s why he says (in his following statement), “"the first day of unleaveness". This could be talking about Aviv 14 or 15 .... the 14th was the first day on a de facto basis.”

Joe Viel:

“Possibility 1: Aviv 14 (evening) - Begins as we reach Mark 14:12 which says..."in the first day of unleaveness, when they killed the passover, his disciples say to him, `Where wilt thou, [that,] having gone, we may prepare, that thou mayest eat the passover?" Now there's two timing clues on the date here...

"the first day of unleaveness". This could be talking about Aviv 14 or 15. Aviv 15 was the first LEGAL day of Unleavened Bread, but Jews would get their house ready by the 14th in order to be ready for the start of it on the 15th. So the 14th was the first day on a de facto basis.

"when they killed the passover". There's no ambiguity to this one. The lamb was killed on the 14th "between the mixings". So the timing for this day was the 14th of Aviv. It would have been the evening of the 14th, since Y'shua was killed on the afternoon of the 14th. History tells us that the Essenes and Samaritans, and probably the Galileans, ate the paschal meal on the eve of the 14th, while the Pharisees and Saduccess ate it on the eve of the 15th. The Law does not prescribe when the lamb must be eaten, only when it must be killed.

Aviv 14 (Daytime) - Begins with the arrest of Y'shua and His trial. Yochanan / John 19:14 tells us it was not yet Passover, as it was celebrated by greater Judea.”

GE:

Re:

“Aviv 14 (evening) - Begins as we reach Mark 14:12 which says..."in the first day of unleaveness, when they killed the passover, his disciples say to him, `Where wilt thou, [that,] having gone, we may prepare, that thou mayest eat the passover?" Now there's two timing clues on the date here...

"the first day of unleaveness" .... "when they killed the passover".....”

14	Jn.13:1,29 Mk.14:17 Mt.26:21	FIRST = THURSDAY ‘BEFORE the FEAST’ / ‘TOWARD the FEAST’ “When the even was come”
	Mk.14:2 Mt.26:5 Mt.26:17 Mk.14:12	‘NOT on the Feast Day’ ‘on the first day of de-leaven ‘on the first day of de-leaven	when they always sacrificed the Passover’
	Lk.22:7	‘came the day of de-leaven whereon passover must be	SLAUGHTERED’
	Lk.22:14	‘when the hour was come’	LAST SUPPER
	Jn.13:30	‘It was night’
	Mk.15:1	‘early morning’ .
	Lk.22:66	‘Came their day’	TRIBUNAL
	Jn.19:14	‘Preparation of Passover’ ‘THE SIXTH HOUR’(6AM.)	DELIVERED
	Mk.15:25	‘THE THIRD HOUR’	CRUCIFIED
	Mt.27:45	‘the sixth hour’	darkness
	46, 50	‘the ninth hour’ EARTHQUAKE RETURNED BREAST BEATING	DIED

Seeming agreement, marred, by ....

Joe Viel:

“This could be talking about Aviv 14 or 15. Aviv 15 was the first LEGAL day of Unleavened Bread, but Jews would get their house ready by the 14th in order to be ready for the start of it on the 15th. So the 14th was the first day on a de facto basis.”

GE:

No one day could be either or another. This was Abib 14, more than any other day, ‘the first LEGAL day’ of the passover proper. According to Exodus the lamb had to be slaughtered and eaten on the “fourteenth day of the First Month”; according to Exodus leaven had to be removed from the land on the “fourteenth day of the First Month”; and according to Exodus the sacrifice as well as unleavened bread had to be eaten on the “fourteenth day of the First Month”. So strictly ‘legal’ was the day of Abib 14, set apart for every of these holy purposes.

Only long after, the rest of the whole of the Old Testament shared the duties, privileges and ‘distinctives’ of ‘Abib 14-Passover’, between Abib 14 and Abib 15, so that the night-ending of Abib 14 was transferred to the night-beginning of Abib 15, and ‘The Feast’, was carried over from the fourteenth onto the fifteenth day of the First Month.

According to Exodus leaven had to be removed from the land on the “fourteenth day of the First Month”, and at the historical first time, unleavened bread was only on the following day (later Abib 15) eaten the first time. The command though had already in Exodus been given that the lamb and the unleavened bread should be eaten together at the passover meal in the same night after the day the lamb was slaughtered on. Ex12:8 and context.

Exodus still reckoned the ceremonial festival days from sunrise to sunrise, unlike the rest of the Old Testament that reckons all days –irrespective whether they were ceremonial feast days or not – from sunset to sunset.

And so Mark, Matthew and Luke call this “first day they always had to kill the passover”, “the first day of un-leaven”, just like Joe Viel explained it, “Jews would get their house ready .... the 14th in order to be ready for the start of (the first....day of Unleavened Bread) on the 15th”. John called this day of passover – Abib 14 – “The Preparation of the Passover” (19:14) and the day “before the Feast Day” (13:1)— before the Feast Day of Abib 15, of which John said that “that day was a great day sabbath” (19:31).

But, where John in 13:1 calls Abib 14 “(the day) before the feast of passover” – ‘pro tehs heortehs tou pascha’, he in 12:1 implies Abib 15 saying, “six days before the days (Plural) of passover” (‘pro hex hehmerohn tou pascha’). It is therefore not “six days before” ‘the first day’ of passover: Abib 14; but “six days before” that aspect of passover known for its ‘days’— which was the “seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread” (Ex12:15a): beginning on Abib 15 and ending on Abib 21 (Ex12:18c).

So Abib 14, Thursday, was the first and “Preparation (Day) of Passover”, “before the passover” of Abib 15 Passover Feast Day.

Abib 13, Wednesday, was the second day “before the passover” of Abib 15 Passover Feast Day.

Abib 12, Tuesday, was the third day “before the passover” of Abib 15 Passover Feast Day.

Abib 11, Monday, was the fourth day “before the passover” of Abib 15 Passover Feast Day.

Abib 10, Sunday, was the fifth day “before the passover” of Abib 15 Passover Feast Day.

Abib 9, Saturday, was the sixth of the “six days before the days of the passover” of Abib 15 Passover Feast Day, specifically.

What would you want more or better? Conclusion: Jesus was crucified on Thursday, and “the third day after”, rose from the dead “On the Sabbath Day”.

The impossible? ..... that “before the days (Plural) of passover” must mean – Singular and exclusive – ‘before the first day, of passover’— therefore, must mean ‘before, Abib 14’. Then John 12:1 will relate how Jesus “came” – meaning his journey as such – to Bethany ‘before the first day of passover’, Abib 14. And that again, would mean the ‘sixth day before the first day of passover’ would have been the day before the Sabbath because Jesus would not have travelled on the Sabbath Day. In other words, Friday would have been the sixth day before the first day of the passover, and the Sabbath would have been “the following day”, and Jesus would have entered Jerusalem on a beast of burden and the Jews would have cut branches on the Sabbath Day — again things not Jesus or the Jews would have done on the Sabbath Day.

Which leaves us with no other option than to accept the Sabbath was the sixth of the “six days before the (FEAST-) days of the passover”, so that Thursday Abib 14 and day of Crucifixion, will be “the day before the Feast” and “Preparation Day of the Passover (Feast)” of Unleavened Bread, Abib 15.

Tradition as far as the dates are concerned for once is in the right to have accepted ‘Palm Sunday’ for having been Abib 10, and ‘Good Friday’ for having been Abib 15. Unfortunately tradition made of Friday Abib 15, Abib 14 as well by having moved Abib 14 forward onto Abib 15— so to get a Sunday-Resurrection for Jesus. Joe Viel followed another route to the same destination, by having moved ‘Good Friday’ Abib 15 back onto Abib 14 “Good Thursday”.

Joe Viel:

“"when they killed the passover". There's no ambiguity to this one. The lamb was killed on the 14th "between the mixings". So the timing for this day was the 14th of Aviv. It would have been the evening of the 14th, since Y'shua was killed on the afternoon of the 14th. History tells us that the Essenes and Samaritans, and probably the Galileans, ate the paschal meal on the eve of the 14th, while the Pharisees and Saduccess ate it on the eve of the 15th. The Law does not prescribe when the lamb must be eaten, only when it must be killed.”

GE:

There is no ambiguity; you’re right. Then why create ambiguity where it does not exists? (And what is, “between the mixings”? Do you mean “between the pair of nights”, ‘behn ha arbayim’ the “Dual of ‘night’” (Young)?)

The problem with your “timing for this day”, Joe Viel, is that you confuse its beginning and ending. You talk of “evening” as the “afternoon” or “eve” as were they the same thing. .... “It would have been the evening of the 14th, since Y'shua was killed on the afternoon of the 14th. History tells us that the Essenes and Samaritans, and probably the Galileans, ate the paschal meal on the eve of the 14th ....”.

Joe Viel:

“Aviv 14 (Daytime) - Begins with the arrest of Y'shua and His trial. Yochanan / John 19:14 tells us it was not yet Passover, as it was celebrated by greater Judea.”

GE:

It’s incorrect to say “John 19:14 tells us it was not yet Passover”. In fact, the Greek states that “It was PASSOVER’S Preparation”— that day belonged to the days of the passover. It was its “first day”, Mk14:12, Mt26:17, Lk22:7— Abib 14. Only, whereas Jn19:14 refers to the middle hour of Abib 14, “6 o’clock in the morning the Preparation of the passover”, Mk14:12, Mt26:17 and Lk22:7 refer to the beginning (‘beginning-“hour”) of Abib 14, Mk14:17, Mt26:20 and Lk22:14.

Joe Viel:

“Now there's not much room to make the sequence of event shorter than what I have here. Mark puts enough "the next day" markers in here to tell us we can't put the temple clearing and the teachings on Taxes, etc., on the same day.

Could Mark failed to have noted a day? Well, that's entirely possible. Nearly all of the 4 gospels list events that the other 3 don't.”

GE:

Why would you consider a second ‘possibility’ while your first ‘possibility’ – up to this point, ‘Thursday’ – has been correct in every respect? Because, dear Joe Viel, it seems you have anticipated you would need another day to reach the sixth of the “six days before passover”. In fact you vented your suspicion, having asked,

Joe Viel:

“Could Mark failed to have noted a day? Well, that's entirely possible. Nearly all of the 4 gospels list events that the other 3 don't.”

Your real explanation is all contained in these words of yours,

“History tells us that the Essenes and Samaritans, and probably the Galileans, ate the paschal meal on the eve of the 14th, while the Pharisees and Saduccess ate it on the eve of the 15th. The Law does not prescribe when the lamb must be eaten, only when it must be killed.”

Joe Viel’s first explanation:

“The Law does not prescribe when the lamb must be eaten, only when it must be killed.”

“‘The Law prescribed’ “when the lamb must be eaten” with no ambiguity, just as it ‘prescribed’ with no ambiguity, “when it must be killed”:

“When it must be killed”:

“The Law, prescribed”, “the passover MUST be killed .... the first day” (Lk22:7) “in the afternoon” .....

“In the fourteenth day of the First Month at even .... Ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation shall kill it in the evening.” (Lv23:5 and Ex12:6) “At even” and “in the evening” are Old English for “afternoon” – confirmed through Christ the Passover Lamb of God who died ‘afternoon’, “the ninth hour” Jewish time, 3 p.m. “Sacrifice the passover at even at the going down of the sun”, Dt16:6.

Mark the utmost significant words, “Sacrifice the passover at even at the going down of the sun, at the season (or ‘time’) that thou camest forth out of Egypt.” Israel came to stand on the away-shore of the Red Sea “forth out of Egypt”, “midst of the afternoon”! See paragraph, ‘Out on the 15th and In on the 16th Nisan’, book 1/1 p 52, or article, ‘Out of the deep in the afternoon.doc’.

“When the lamb must be eaten”:

GE:

Jn.18:28

Jn.19:31 Mk.15:42

FEAST

‘might eat the Passover'

‘Because it was preparation

‘being the Fore-Sabbath’

the Jews asked Pilate

After these things

Joseph asked Pilate

Mk.15:45

Lk.23:53

Jn.19:38c

Jn.19:40a

Pilate “granted” Joseph Jesus’ body

‘He took the body down’

‘He therefore took the body of Jesus away’

‘Then they prepared the body of Jesus’

‘There laid they Jesus’

With no ambiguity and just as clearly therefore, does ‘the Law prescribe’ “when the lamb must be eaten”:

“And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast (‘Eating’) of Unleavened Bread”, Lv23:6a; “And they shall eat the flesh in that night (following after the afternoon the sacrifice was killed) while unleavened bread they shall eat”, Ex12:8; “And thou shalt roast and eat it .... and thou shalt return in the morning and go unto thy tents”, Dt16:7; “And in the selfsame day after .... the fourteenth day .... the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal .... they ate unleavened cakes”, Josua 5:11

“On the eve of the 15th” is on the afternoon of the 14th. Neither the Pharisees nor the Sadducees “ate it on the eve of the 15th” which ‘eve’ was in the end of Abib 14 – its afternoon, in the Old English of the KJV. No, they then, “killed the passover”. All the Jews after it had been slaughtered on Abib 14, ate the sacrifice on Abib 15, after sunset in the night-first halve of Abib 15 in “the night to be solemnly observed” (in Exodus still dated Abib 14), (Ex12:42), before midnight (Ex12:22c,29,34), “and while they ate” the first of the baked unleavened cakes (Ex12:8b, Dt16:7).

All the rest of the Bible after Exodus, in so many words mentions the eating of Feast of passover, in its evening-beginnings until midnight of Abib 15. Indisputably.

To say that “The Law does not prescribe when the lamb must be eaten”, is therefore just simply wrong.

Joe Viel’s alternate explanation:

“Could Mark failed to have noted a day? Well, that's entirely possible. Nearly all of the 4 gospels list events that the other 3 don't.”

Joe Viel looked for one day’s (seeming) absence at the wrong end of his own sequence of the six days. He looked for it, in here .....

Jn.12:1

SIXTH = Saturday

Bethany

‘where Lazarus stayed’

Meal

Mary anoints Jesus’ feet

Lk.19:29-44 Mk.11:1 Jn.12:12 Mk.11:11

FIFTH = Palm Sunday

‘the next morning’ ‘late hour’

Village Into Jerusalem,

in temple To Bethany

Colt, palm branches

‘looked around’

Mt.21:18 Mk.11:12 Mk.11:15 Lk.19:45-48 Mk.11:19

FOURTH = Monday ‘early’

‘next morning’

‘when it got late’

From Bethany

‘came to Jerusalem’

‘out of city’

Fig tree cursed

Cast out money changers

Mk.11:20 21,27 Mt.22:23 Lk.20:1-8 Mk.13:1, 3

Mt.26:2

THIRD = Tuesday ‘early’

‘on the same day’

after two days crucified

‘returning’ (from Bethany)

‘to Jerusalem again’

‘out of temple’

Mount of Olives

Lk.21:37

Fig tree withered

Temple building

Jesus preaches Kingdom of heaven

Lk.21:38

Mt.26:3

Mk.14:1-3

SECOND = Wednesday

‘After two days Passover/Feast’

‘being in Bethany’

‘Simon’s house’

CONSPIRACY Meal

Woman anoints Jesus’ head

..... while it is not in here, because these first five days of the “six days before passover” perfectly correspond with the Gospels’ every statements bearing on the sequence of the “six days before passover”.

Joe Viel indicated all five of these days correctly to have ended up – correctly –, here:

“Aviv 13 - Y'shua annointed at Bethany (the second time) "two days before" Passover. (Mark 14:1-11) This annointing was different than the earlier one John records in John 12. Here, an unnamed woman annoints Him with perfume on His head, while the earlier discussed His feet.

Aviv 14 (evening) - Begins as we reach Mark 14:12 which says..."in the first day of unleaveness, when they killed the passover, his disciples say to him, `Where wilt thou, [that,] having gone, we may prepare, that thou mayest eat the passover?" Now there's two timing clues on the date here...”

Joe Viel:

“Possibility 2:

“Aviv 11 - Triumphal Entry on Sunday the 10th (Mark 11:1-11)

Aviv 12 - Y'shua clears the temple on "the next day" (Mark 11:12) after His triumphal entry. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.

Aviv 13 - They notice the withered Fig Tree "in the morning" (Mark 11:20) the day after He cleared the temple. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.

Topics discussed that day were...

Authority of Y'shua questioned (Mark 11:27-33)

Parable on the Tenants (Mark 12:1-12)

Paying Taxes to Caesar (Mark 12:13-17)

Marriage at the Resurrection (Mark 12:18-27, Matthew 22:23 plainly tells us this was the same day as his teaching on paying taxes to Caesar.)

Being David's son (Mark 12:35-40)

The Second Coming (Mark 13:1-37)

Aviv 13 - Y'shua annointed at Bethany (the second time) "two days before" Passover. (Mark 14:1-11) This annointing was different than the earlier one John records in John 12 and the differences were discussed in detail in the previous chronology.

Aviv 14 (evening) - Begins as we reach Mark 14:12 which says..."in the first day of unleaveness, when they killed the passover, his disciples say to him, `Where wilt thou, [that,] having gone, we may prepare, that thou mayest eat the passover?" This is similar to the chain of events as listed in the previous chronology.”

GE:

Joe Viel’s ultimate aim is to make Sunday Abib 17, which he says, was the day of the First Sheaf Wave Offering. To quote him, “Y'shua (Jesus) died on Thursday afternoon, Aviv 14th, and rose just before dawn on Sunday morning, Aviv 17.”

But Sunday Abib 17 < Saturday Abib 16 < Friday Abib 15 < Thursday Crucifixion Abib 14 .... are four days in stead of three that Jesus would be ‘in the heart of the earth’.

But How did he manage to DO it? Joe Viel’s second ‘possibility’ is of no use ....

“Aviv 11 - Triumphal Entry on Sunday the 10th (Mark 11:1-11)

Aviv 12 - ..... [Monday]

Aviv 13 - ..... [Tuesday]

Aviv 13 - ..... [Wednesday] .....

Aviv 14 (evening) - ..... [Thursday] Begins as we reach Mark 14:12 which says..."in the first day of unleaveness, when they killed the passover, his disciples say to him, `Where wilt thou, [that,] having gone, we may prepare, that thou mayest eat the passover?" This is similar to the chain of events as listed in the previous chronology.”

How did Joe Viel manage to make “Aviv 13” both Tuesday and Wednesday; or how did he manage to make both Tuesday and Wednesday, “Aviv 13”? Or how did Joe Viel manage to make “Aviv 14” to disappear into thin air, to like Bux Bunny’s wabbit holes suddenly pop up where the Gospels all four of them have it appear “as we reach Mark 14:12”?

How did Joe Viel do it? It is impossible to say, because it is impossible to do. Joe Viel did not do it; he failed.

“"two days before" Passover” according to “Mark 14:1-11 ..... as we reach Mark 14:12”, is impossible.

1) Mk14:1 to 11 speak of the Passover Feast day;

2) Mk14:12 speak of Crucifixion Day.

Mark is absolutely unambiguous. Mark 14:1a says, “Now it was the passover (season or month, cf. Dt16:1, Ex12:3), and the Feast of the Unleavened Bread (Abib 15), was after two days.”

The two of us here agree Unleavened Bread Feast was Thursday evening, the beginning of the Sixth Day, ‘Friday’, after Jesus had been crucified during day before, Abib 14. Therefore Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread Eaten, was Abib 15, Friday.

So, according to Mark 14:1-11, Friday, was “Feast of Unleavened Bread” Abib 15, and Judas “two days” before Friday – that is, one day before Abib 14 “The Preparation of the Passover”— one day before Thursday and day of Crucifixion, went to conspire with the Jews to kill Jesus. “Not on the Feast Day” decided the Jews according to Mark (14:2).

Matthew 26:2-5 relates how the chief priests and the scribes and elders of the people amongst themselves, “two days” before the “Passover” as such ‘when they killed (crucified) the passsover’, “consulted that they might take Jesus by subtlety and kill Him”.

It therefore was the next day (Mk14:1-11) that Judas went to see the Jews – the day after they among themselves (Mt26:14-16) conspired.

The ‘Feast of Unleavened bread” or Friday the day referred to in Mk14:1, was “two days after” Judas’ meeting with the Jews. ‘Inclusive’ or ‘exclusive’ the day referred to fell outside the reach of Thursday Abib 14 which was only one day to Abib 15, Feast of Unleavened Bread Eaten.

Mark refers to two days before the “Feast”; Matthew refers to two days before “the Passover’s” sacrifice-day.

Mark refers to Wednesday two days before Friday the “Feast”— and to “Jesus’, BEING in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper at meat” – ‘ontos autou en’.

Matthew refers to Tuesday two days before Thursday “Passover” “when they must kill the passover”. Matthew speaks “OF WHEN Jesus was come in the house of Simon the leper in Bethany” – ‘tou de Iehsou genomenou en’.

Mark does not tell about the Jews’ own conspiracy which Matthew does tell about; Mark tells of Judas’ visit to the Jews one day after their own, and he uses Judas’ visit to indicate the Feast Day (twice mentioned)— on Friday “after two days”.

Matthew tells about the Jews’ conspiracy amongst themselves and uses it to indicate the day of Crucifixion— on Thursday “two days after”.

Joe Viel’s ‘second possibility’ “sequence of events” is simply incomplete, incoherent and untenable, containing much unnecessary and omitting much needed detail.

Joe Viel:

“Aviv 11 - Y'shua clears the temple on "the next day" (Mark 11:12) after His triumphal entry. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.

Aviv 12 - They notice the withered Fig Tree "in the morning" (Mark 11:20) the day after He cleared the temple. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.

Topics discussed that day were...

Authority of Y'shua questioned (Mark 11:27-33)

Parable on the Tenants (Mark 12:1-12)

Paying Taxes to Caesar (Mark 12:13-17)

[GE: .............. up to: “] (Mark 12:35-40)

The Second Coming (Mark 13:1-37)”!

GE:

“Could Mark failed to have noted a day?” No, you, failed to notice the indicators between Mk11:19 and 20, dear Joe Viel.

Joe Viel:

“But if you try to add more time, you run into a problem where you have Y'shua travelling between Bethany and Jerusalem on a Sabbath day. We can rule out Mark 11:12 occuring on Sabbath because Y'shua travelled between two cities on that day. He stayed in Bethany the entire week leading up to His crucifixion. The only place where there is a "break" in the accounts is that there is a Dinner listed after His travel day and the day before He rode into Jerusalem. So if we assume that the night of His "dinner in His honor" in Bethany was an Erev Shabbat, all the timing of the events fit together neatly and lead up to a Thursday crucifixion. Else, we put His arrival more than 6 days beforehand. Or you push His crucifixion beyond the 6 days John 12 talks about.

GE:

So why not – as I have said before – stop and be happy with ‘possibility number one’? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it, and it takes into consideration all the given found in all four Gospels very harmoniously?

Joe Viel:

GE:

Ag no! Many or few, it’s fantastical.

Joe Viel:

“Exodus/Shemot 12:6 required Israel to "take care of" the lamb selected. Simon "took care of" Y'shua. Jerusalem, as a city, did nothing to "take care of" Y'shua, as the requirements of Exodus 12 state. So if He arrived at Bethany on Sunday the 10th, 6 days later (counting the 10th as day "1"), would be the 15th when they would eat of the Passover. So the next "day" could be Monday the 11th, leading us up to Thursday the 14th when He was crucified. Also, nothing about his status changed after his entry into Jerusalem. He still stayed at Simon's home in Bethany all week long. If the entry in Jerusalem was it, then why didn't He stay in Jerusalem the rest of the week? He was annointed TWICE in Bethany that week - the first time when He arrived and the second time 2 days before the feast. Again, part of the "care" they gave Him there.”

GE:

Re: “Exodus/Shemot 12:6 required Israel to "take care of" the lamb selected.”

(KJV) “Ye shall keep it”; “He shall take it out from the sheep”, from ‘mishmereth’ : ‘charge’ x 50, ‘office’ x 1, ‘ordinance’ x 3, ‘safeguard’ x 1, ‘ward’ x 9, ‘watch’ x 7, ‘keep’ x 1, ‘to be kept’ x 6. Young’s Analytical Concordance.

Six times, “to be kept” in, Ex16:23,32,34, Nmb17:10, 19:9. ‘Laid up’ / ‘stock’. Nothing about ‘caring’.

To the contrary, Ex12:3: “they shall take to them every man a lamb”, “take to them” from ‘laqach’ : ‘take (away)’ x 793, ‘receive’ x 62, ‘fetch’ x 30, ‘bring’ x 25, etc. Cf. ‘lakad’ : ‘capture / catch’.

The animal had to be separated and isolated, and it seems to me, was penned fast and received no fodder or water those three or four terrible days before it got slaughtered. Thus was Christ’s food to through suffering and humiliation do the will of his Father. (Ordinary food for Him made no difference.) It was Christ’s food to through suffering and humiliation do the will of his Father and to approach his Father’s Kingdom, the Kingdom of Christ’s triumphal suffering unto death “three days and three nights”. Jesus would finally enter upon Abib 14 after sunset and His and his disciples’ “preparing” for the impending “Passover of Yahweh” at the table of the Last Supper (Wednesday evening). Exactly to the course of time at the first passover in Egypt.

No; Joe Viel’s dilemma of one SUPPOSED unnoticed day, lies not hidden within the past five of the “six days before the passover”; it lies right with and in this sixth of the “six days before the passover”, Abib 14, ‘Thursday’.

In other words, was Thursday “Passover reckoned from when the sacrifice was slaughtered on the 14th or when the meal was eaten on the 15th?” .....

in other words, “Could .... Mark 14:12 .... be talking of .... "the first day of unleaveness"?” .....

in other words, could it be: “.... the 14th was the first day on a de facto basis”? .....

in other words, does “Aviv 14 (evening) (begin) as we reach Mark 14:12 which says..."in the first day of unleaveness” .....

..... BUT WE ARE ALL THE WHILE TALKING OF ABIB “the 15th?”!

..... BECAUSE WE CANNOT HAVE PASSOVER EATEN ON THE SAME DAY AS PASSOVER KILLED!

One must distinguish the two legitimate first days of passover, as I have explained above with reference to Mk11:1-11 and Mt26:2-16. Both Abib 14 “The Preparation of the Passover” and “the first day they removed leaven when they always killed the passover”, and Abib 15, “Feast of Passover” and “first day of unleavened bread (eaten)”, are, ‘passover’, ‘LEGAL’, but, each, in its own right!

1Cor15:3-4, “How that Christ died for our sins ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES; and that He was buried; and that He rose again THE THIRD DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES.” ‘LEGAL’ means: “according to the Scriptures” the passover Scriptures.

Thursday was not – no matter how ‘possibly’ or impossibly – either Abib 14 or Abib 15. Thursday, was Abib 14, and sixth, of the “six days BEFORE, passover, OF DAYS”— “before” the first of those “days”, Plural; which were ‘Passover-FEAST-of-Unleavened-Bread-Days’, ‘pro hex hehmerohn tou pascha’, John 12:1; in Ex12, “Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread ..... in the first day there shall be a holy convocation” (12:15a,16a).

But this is only the first and of less importance aspect of the problematics of Abib 14 and 15 for scholars who hold a Friday or Thursday Crucifixion but a Sunday Resurrection.

The real ‘missing day’ (that Mark, mark you, it is alleged did not notice) ..... the real ‘missing day’ — “according to the Scriptures” of “the third day rose” — in fact did not lie hidden within (Thursday) Abib 14, but all the while lay forgotten and unnoticed BEYOND (Thursday) Abib 14! Mark though, mind you, noticed and noted it most attentively in 15:42; and Matthew in 27:57; and Luke in 23:50; and John, in 19:31! All four Gospels noticed! On which subject we have dealt before.

22 July 2009

Gerhard Ebersöhn

Suite 324

Private Bag X43

Sunninghill 2157

biblestudents@imaginet.co.za

http://www.biblestudents.co.za